Ku Li hit bulls eye on the “teaching math and science in English” issue in his latest interview with
“What do you want? You want English? Or do you want them to be proficient in Maths and Science? These are two different things.
As a Malay and as a Malaysian, I'd like to be proficient in my own national language. But if you want me to know English better, then teach me English.
Why must you use a foreign language to master Science and Maths? For the well-being of the country, it is essential that everybody should know their (national) language and that they know their roots.”
My stand on this is parallel with his.
It is not necessary to teach M&S in English if the ultimate aim is to improve our proficiency in them. Looking at countries like
Instead, Bahasa
Having a national language is important for nation building for the very simple fact that it stimulates unity. I understand the sentiments of those who are championing the course of mother-tongue language. Am not against that, but above all, I think everyone has to give priority to the national language if we are serious in creating unity.
It is a little radical, but it’s necessary.
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15 comments:
why include liverpool FC in your comment? i wonder
You might be a bit out of Science and Math touch. But really,
First, learning them in Malay will limit the range of people who will read the "Malay" papers produced by Local Uni students.
Second if we tell them to write papers in English, then might as well learn them in English early on instead of catching up individually when you're in Uni.
Thirdly, the international community ussually uses English in all the international conferences in Science and Maths, it's easier to mix with people from Oxford, MIT, Harvard, Princeton if you speak the science terms in English.
Fourth, some of my friends here are from Chiense Independant schools, so they had to catch up on the English terms during the lectures and have some difficulty in presentations because of translation problems.
Fifth, the countries like Japan, China, French all have firm foundations in the science in their languages mostly due to their own market of Scientist inside the countries(actually I'm not so sure), but Malaysia is still to young to mimic them, yes, it's a nice dream, but it's still a dream.
Sixth, producing breakthrough papers in English will shock the world better than in any other languages.
Lastly, Personally I find EST is very helpful for me to switch from Malay to English in Form 6. Now, I'm glad to learn Physics and Maths in English. Really, I personally think that it's better to learn them in English than Malay, mostly out of the limitations of Malay.
First:
- if the content is real good, they can find people to translate it
- again, language and content/knowledge is 2 separate thing.
- the focus on those "papers" i think is the content?
- if the knowledge is really good then people will find ways to understand it la, regardless of the language.
- just like people watching korean drama. dont understand korean language but they still go cari subtitles coz the show damn good
Second:
- it need not be BM in school and English in school
- it can be BM all the way
- wanna improve english? Have extra lessons in school and Uni
Third:
- question: if not mistaken even in Olympiad they have multiple language?
- above all, i think knowledge cuts across all languages
- knowledge is knowledge, language is just a mean of communicating that knowledge
Forth:
- if the prob is with TERMS or the overall LANGUAGE?
- terms small prob
- if language, teach more english, not s&m in english
Fifth:
- Shud we not start from somewhere?
- if not now then when?
- dreams will remain as dreams if we do ntg about it
Sixth:
- refer point 1
last:
- If EST is the solution, why dont we have more EST then? Start from primary school.
- good idea also.
- can improve english
- can learn english science&math terms
- can retain BM in S&M for nation building
-everybody happy, negara aman makmur, problem solved thank you god.
Also, my point is: Nation building should super-seed S&M. No proper nation and country, how to majukan S&M?
Sorry forgot to reponse to your "You might be a bit out of Science and Math touch. But really" cheap shot remark haha.
Thats coz i havent studied science since 2005 la dude.
And to anonymous, coz Liv FC is the best club in the world.
Well, I think our government should be firm on their decision, whether to learn S&M in BM or English and also be clear on their objective. There is no harm in learning in any language actually but they have to prepare enough people to do the translation job if we need to refer to the journals in the net as most of them are in English. Besides, it is pointless to argue about this if the lecturers in the University stick to their own principles. I have lecturers who teaches in BM despite the notes given is in English due to their pride of being a Malaysian is stronger than what they think about Ministry of Education's objectives. So, do the government actually consider about this or let the students suffer the translation job to be done by themselves.
I don't care what are the languages being used but just how efficient and the meaning behind it. If I am going to overseas(such as Japan) to study, I am going to learn them in foreign language also. The input of knowledge is the most important part. But as Tsu Chong had mentioned, without proper nation, we are not who we are today. So, be grateful. Think for the country and pay your gratitude earnestly.
To Tsuchong:
- Well, science and publishing community doesn't usually translate research journal and books into Malay, even if they are good. (Have you ever read Michiokaku Hyper Space and Vision in Malay? Or Stephen Hawking work?)
Asking other people to translate...would be a bit hard and time consuming. (The translator would have to be real good in both languages, and science as well, who can be hard to find. Even then they may be reluctant to translate 500+ pages)
- Language is needed to present your knowledge. True, good in language doesn't mean you are good in the knowledge. But I seriously doubt a person who are BM educated can present well (to a group of lecturer from foreign uni, let say) unless he really takes extra effort and have a good foundation in language. (which, if we learn english in science and math in HIGH SCHOOL, that probelm would have been much trivial)
- Good content can be seriously affected if no body understand them. (Remember those teacher/lecturer who are not good in presenting their knowledge?)
- In a more extreme case, let us imagine learning science / bussiness / art / engineering in tamil. Assume the knowledge is vital and important. Would we really learn them? (I myself would rather find a translator. But then again, I will be far behind those who know tamil when it actually got translated.)
-Ah well, for Korean drama, there are many translator since the demand is higher, and they don't really need to have deep knowledge in the field. But things are different for science...(unfortunately for those bad in language like me)
- BM all the way...erm...I would rather learn in Chinese then, since there are more paper published in English, Chinese then Malay. Or German, or French. But not Malay. (Secondary school or primary school wise...nevermind, since I don't need to read those paper and advanced scientific books yet. But for high school and uni...cross over my dead body if you want me to learn that in Malay. :P)
- I do agree with you, though, that teaching Science and Maths in English doesn't significantly improve our english.
- The use of language to promote national integration...is rather baseless. American speak english. But racial problem still exist. And by the way, even if that really helps...I don't see why teaching science and math in malay will promote it. We have already had Malay subject, aren't we?
- Indonesia force everyone to learn indonesian, and chinese to abandon their name. Are their racial problem much less than us? And racial problem is not an issue of language nowadays, it is closer to politic, economy and social factors. (such as income, political influence, culture diversity, history,national policies etc.)
Dear Viper, thanks for comment. Here are my response:
- from the comments, i gather you're in agreement with the point that language and knowledge are two separate things
- if i understand correctly, your concern is that the knowledge may not be channeled/communicated properly if we do not learn S&M in english from the start.
- base on the above premise, would still have to disagree that teaching S&M would be the solution
- imagine this. say if a student is highly proficient in english, but he/she studies S&M in BM
- i do not think it will be a problem for him/her to communicate or comprehend S&M knowledge
- again, if the concern is language, teaching S&M in english is not the proper solution
- we do however, seem to be in agreement that language is vital in S&M
- on the point that language does not promote unity, will have to diagree again, because one of the fundamental elements of nation building is having a national language.
- we do have a constitutionalized national language, but if we do not put that into action, it's mere cosmetic
- on the point about america and indonesia.have to admit that am not really certain about racial situation in US and Indo, so cant comment much.
- but imagine if people there do not have a common language, i.e. each ethnic speak their own mothertongue. situation would be far worse wouldnt it?
- do agree that racism stems from more pressing factors like policies, econmics, etc. but language is definitely one of the contirbuting factors although is discreet.
Wow, so much stuff here to debate about. lol. Tsu Chong, really, after I read you comment I think you're really out of the league of Science and Maths and more into Love for Malaysia.
Ya, Olympiads do ask the professors from each countries to translate for their students.
And papers is kind of like the "main form" of how we scientist work and present our works to the world. So it's of the highest importance.
And Korean dramas, and Japanese animes are optional, non-scientific and not as important as science.
And the other details are basicly meaningless to debate about.
The point is that I have gone to Singapore and I'm glad that I've taken EST and learned Science and maths in English in form 6. It helps me a lot and for me it's very important for Science and Maths to be taught in English, at least for those who will follow my footsteps (sorry for being arrogant). But perhaps your point, applicable to all Malaysians is more solid than mine (at least in your view point).
Still personally, I think it's a good mix of English and Malays Subject in Secondary School for Science and Maths taught in English. Therefore there's not much point teaching them in Malay as there are other subjects that do the jobs. And also it's more important for the few potential future Scientist, Engineers to learn their tools in English. Really, it can sometimes change the way you think when you learn Science and maths in another language.
Oh ya, and I think the reason that international students from China, India, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc come to the Science Faculty in Singapore University is because they learn it in English. I just asked my vietnamese friend in third year maths and he said that English is better as most of the Science and maths books are in English.
However if I still didn't convince you the importance of teaching Science and Maths in English, at least in Malaysia (yes I agree to teaching them in English as early as possible) then I shouldn't waste anymore time on you. Since you're really in another world altogether.
Btw, I like unity too, but there's no clear corelation here as far as I can see. No statistics supporting your statements and claims too.
Teaching science and maths in English can have grave effects on Malaysia. Read my latest blog entry to find out more.
Thanks!
Let’s start by saying that your previous comment did not provide any response to the points that I raised, nor has it provided any new points to support your argument.
But I’ll response again anyway.
Tsu Chong, really, after I read you comment I think you're really out of the league of Science and Maths and more into Love for Malaysia.
- I already stated that the country is more important to me than M&S
- you make it sound as though it’s something to be ashamed of
- am not arguing about my S&M knowledge, so it’s alright for you to say that I’m out of league
Ya, Olympiads do ask the professors from each countries to translate for their students.
- thanks, this supports my point that S&M cuts across language
And papers is kind of like the "main form" of how we scientist work and present our works to the world. So it's of the highest importance.
- I already agreed to this, why are you raising it again
- I said the content of the paper is more important than the language
And Korean dramas, and Japanese animes are optional, non-scientific and not as important as science.
- if people can translate the “not so important Korean drama”, cant they also translate the all more important S&M?
And the other details are basicly meaningless to debate about.
- ironic that you choose to debate about the Korean dramas and anime, but then say that other details are meaningless to debate about
The point is that I have gone to Singapore and I'm glad that I've taken EST and learned Science and maths in English in form 6. It helps me a lot and for me it's very important for Science and Maths to be taught in English, at least for those who will follow my footsteps (sorry for being arrogant). But perhaps your point, applicable to all Malaysians is more solid than mine (at least in your view point).
- say if you learn S&M in BM in form 6, and assuming that your English is good, would you face that much extra difficulty when you go to NUS?
- again you’re substantiating my point that whether or not people find it difficult to cope with S&M in uni is more dependent on their overall proficiency of the English language, rather than whether or not they learn S&M in English in school
Still personally, I think it's a good mix of English and Malays Subject in Secondary School for Science and Maths taught in English. Therefore there's not much point teaching them in Malay as there are other subjects that do the jobs. And also it's more important for the few potential future Scientist, Engineers to learn their tools in English. Really, it can sometimes change the way you think when you learn Science and maths in another language.
- similarly, there are other better methods to improve the proficiency of S&M
- I am not an engineer so I cannot speak on behalf of them. But I personally think that if the engineer is good proficient in English in the first place, I do not foresee him/her having much difficulty to “learn their tools”… whatever the “tools” are…
Oh ya, and I think the reason that international students from China, India, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc come to the Science Faculty in Singapore University is because they learn it in English. I just asked my vietnamese friend in third year maths and he said that English is better as most of the Science and maths books are in English.
- same argument applies. if your friend is good in English, he will not have difficulty understanding the English books even if he/she studies S&M in his/her mothertongue
- maybe initially stages will be difficult to get use to the terms
However if I still didn't convince you the importance of teaching Science and Maths in English, at least in Malaysia (yes I agree to teaching them in English as early as possible) then I shouldn't waste anymore time on you. Since you're really in another world altogether.
Btw, I like unity too, but there's no clear corelation here as far as I can see. No statistics supporting your statements and claims too.
- am not convinced because all you seem to be doing is keep repeating that I am “out of league” and “another world altogether” without substantiating your argument.
- I will not seek offence to that because I am no longer doing sciences in the first place. But even if I am, and even if I won a medal, went to iran, went to some camps, yada yada yada whatsoever, I will not think myself as being “in league” or “in the right world” and say other people do not. Because learning is never ending
- there is a thin line separating confidence and arrogance, but in this case am more inclined to think that its arrogance. Don’t worry though, I still acknowledge your S&M brilliance and think that you’re top of the league. Something like Liverpool in the EPL.
- on the statistics point. dude, some things you’ll just have to use common sense. Not everything can be correlated and be made into a formula; that’s probably why you cant comprehend my point on nation building and unity
- unity is not something that you can “like” like liking an ice-cream flavour. It’s something that should make people proud, passionate, and comfortable
- do yourself a favour and just google “nation building”, and I’m sure you’ll find some writeups linking national language with nation building.
In any case, I can also raise the point on the feasibility and practicality of teaching S&M in English, as mentioned by Joon Hao and the previous commenter. But that is another argument for another day.
Back to work, at the rate I’m going, I’ll be fired soon.
Lol, Ok sorry for being overboard in this. We stick to our own points then. lol. Good luck in your job!
yea even liverpool fc is older than malaysia..
hint : tiger eat dragon
i lazy to read all the comments but let me tell u 1 thing, all those countries tht keep their mothertounge in maths and science are pioneers. they are the ones discovering stuffs and creating stuffs. they dont need to know english coz they are more advanced than english ppl. we malaysians on the other hand are copycats. we leech on the advances of others. to leech well, english is essential. else, you will get UPM professors who created an apple peeler as her project and plans to get it patterned when the perfected version has already been in the market for who knows how long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ7J6d5tCIA
aiyaa... teach s&m in both malay and english lar. if want, can teach in chinese and tamil also. case solved. everybody wins. no need fight. no need debate.
by the way, i'm being serious here. teach s&m in all languages. kill two birds with one stone. no, three birds. no, its four birds!!!
i smart right...
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